Ep. 81 Navigating Transitions and Building Community with Jolene Brown

In this episode of AgCredit Said It, host Matt Adams sits down with the dynamic Jolene Brown at the 2025 Emerge experience for Ag Credit. Jolene, an Iowa farm girl turned professional speaker, shares her invaluable insights on farm finance, transition planning, and the importance of community in agriculture. From navigating the tough times of the 1980s farm crisis to offering practical advice on ensuring the continuity of family farms, Jolene's wisdom is both profound and practical. Tune in to learn how to initiate honest conversations about farm transitions, the significance of knowing your neighbors, and the critical steps to secure your farm's financial future. Whether you're a seasoned farmer or just starting out, this episode is packed with strategies to help you grow your farm's legacy. Don't miss out on Jolene's engaging stories and expert advice!

Transcription

Speaker 1 (00:08):Welcome to AgCredit Said It, your go-to podcast for insights on farm finance and maximizing your return on investment. Join us as we talk to industry leaders, financial experts, and area farmers, bringing you skillful advice and strategies to grow your farm's financial future ag credit setting where farm finance goes beyond the balance sheet.

Matt Adams (00:38):Hey, welcome back everyone to another great episode of AgCredit Said It. I'm your host Matt Adams, and we are recording today at our 2025 Emerge experience for Ag Credit. Kind of one of our staple events for our membership really geared towards, originally kind of looked at the young beginning side of our membership and now we've really expanded to where if we can find a little something for everybody. So just a great experience to be here and I have the honor today to sit down with Jolene Brown and we're going to go over, so we got a chance to listen to her last night during our opening keynote session and just the experiences and the stories that she can share. So Jolene, thank you very much for being part of our podcast today.

Jolene Brown (01:29):I'm just tickled to be here. Thank you Matt.

Matt Adams (01:32):So Jolene, why don't you go ahead and just tell our listeners a little bit about yourself, and I know you're an Iowa Farm girl, so just tell us a little bit about your operation and your backstory.

Jolene Brown (01:42):Well, a lot of people will tell you that I was raised on the farm, but actually the farm raised me. Okay. So I grew up in a very diversified farm where my father's love was Belgian draft horses.

Matt Adams (01:52):Oh really?

Jolene Brown (01:52):It was my job to keep them clean, feed them, steam the stalls, to train them, to hitch them and to grow up with the horses. And after I left that operation, because we also had pigs and chickens, by the way, my sand pile was too close to the chicken house. I learned right away better have a sib with me. Right. And then I married a real farmer brown from Eastern Iowa and we are corn and soybean farmers. We live 40 minutes west of the Mississippi River on a non flood year. So closer the

Matt Adams (02:20):Floods,

Jolene Brown (02:21):Drought, years a little farther away. But I've been so blessed to work with the best people on this planet and that is the people of agriculture.

Matt Adams (02:29):And that's great to hear because that is one thing. It is our love, it's our passion, our industry and really a diverse industry that I don't really think can be touched by anything else from what we do. And it is a business, but it's also a livelihood that we look at and everything that we produce, everything we do really has a touch in everybody's day to day lives. And that's one thing you talked about last night mean you are a professional speaker as well and talking about telling our story. How do we communicate that out to the common consumer, the person that doesn't know where their eggs come from or where, how bread gets made besides, I know I pick it up off the shelf at the store. And so I guess let's start back to I think that was part of your passion and did that kind of drive you to be becoming a professional speaker and just getting the story out there?

Jolene Brown (03:32):Well, what really got me started in the eighties when the land values crashed in the Midwest

Matt Adams (03:37):In the ugly farm crisis of the

Jolene Brown (03:39):Eighties. And I asked the group last night if they had any idea what the interest rate was for us. And it was 21% in eastern Iowa. We lost 67% of our net worth with the land values crashed. And I said, and you're Gretchen about eight and 9%. And I agree with you, we'd like it much lower than that. But the bottom line here is the people who went through those generations have what I call grit by our fingernails. We hung on or we sold what we had to sold. We got second and third jobs to anything that we could do. And that really shaped and formed us and to make sure that we mitigate risk. And that's one of the greatest gifts that a senior generation can give the younger generations is the ability to be a wise master or a wise mentor. And one of the first questions you'll say, wow, that's a great idea. How are you going to mitigate the risk? Or I've been around a long time, I've seen a lot of advisors. Here's somebody that might be useful to you in the direction you're going. But when I started in the eighties, we had to help people separate their self-worth from their net worth because the haunting words that were coming down our country roads were bankruptcy, foreclosure, suicide and murder.

Speaker 1 (04:47):Oh, exactly. The

Jolene Brown (04:48):President of my bank was murdered by a farmer. He shot and killed his wife, his farm manager. He killed the president of the bank and then he killed himself. And so in agriculture there was an organization that decided that we need to bring the farmers some hope, and they brought up a celebrity inspirational speaker. He was so good. We drove three hours to Ames to hear him speak and I could hardly wait to shake his hand when he finished. He was so good. I wanted to let him know how much I learned. But he left the minute he was done. And so it was about a week and a half later I wrote him a letter and I said, you made such a difference for me. Here's how I'm applying what you said, because we need more than hope, we need some help. And I know you've got two more programs, one in Springfield and one in Indianapolis, so feel free to use this. And we had an hour long conversation about this. He decided to become a student, a master, a celebrity, became a student. And at the end of the conversation he said, okay, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to shorten my program. I want you on that stage. I want you to tell them exactly what you just told me and my assistant will call you tomorrow with your travel itinerary. And he hung up.

Matt Adams (05:56):Oh wow.

Jolene Brown (05:57):Now I've never been in four H or FFA, never given a speech in my life. So here I am in Springfield vomiting into a wastebasket. As I was being pushed onto the stage, I decided if God said it's your turn, you better get out there and give the best of what you have. But we really need to have honest conversations, not just hard conversations, but with a great deal of empathy and care and with humor and celebration to pause to applaud all that we have done. And we always hear in agriculture how we provide food and feed and biofuels for the world. But I want us to know we really provide national security. And if you ever want a bridge for the people who don't understand agriculture, it's good to remind them that I'm one mother who never wants to be dependent on another country for my family's food supply.

Matt Adams (06:45):Definitely.

Jolene Brown (06:46):So if we can approach it according to what other people value, not just what we value, we have a chance to build the bridge that

Matt Adams (06:52):That is great advice. So part of, I know what you talked about last night with part of, I think starting through the eighties farm crisis and seeing what we had there again, the stress out there and working with these families. Take me back. How did you getting to start working with those families in need? And did that lead into some transition planning for the future next generation? Tell me how you got started in that Jolene.

Jolene Brown (07:23):Well, I think you realize, and I do too, that in agriculture we have all kinds of sources for our production.

Speaker 4 (07:29):Yes,

Jolene Brown (07:30):Weeds, seeds, breeds, feeds, money, machinery, marketing, but we're crappy with people. But it's the people that do all the production.

Speaker 4 (07:37):

It's

Jolene Brown (07:38):The people that keep you up at night. It's the people that you have worked so hard to build a legacy for and now what? So I decided to specialize in the human side of agriculture and that bridge from separating self-worth to net worth to how do we transition something that means so much to us so that this legacy might continue. And one of my talks is called Stop the fighting and on the way to the funeral home. And that basically says you better do some things when the times are good or you can have a real mess later on.

Matt Adams (08:05):And that's what in my job, we have a family farm, but even in my job in ag lending, that is one of the tough things I think we see more and more. And part of it I always say too, I feel now it's kind of that I always say it's the generation removed off the farm where it may have been grandpa's farm, mom and dad went into town but still had to tie the farm. And now that ownership has passed to the generation that really not necessarily have a tie to the land as much, but now you have family that wants to farm and you got that gap where there's removal from there. And I think that's a big part of that gap in the transition where how do we bridge that gap to where it's still financially responsible for the transit ownership, but we don't want to burden the family member that wants to farm that if you pay the top dollar, there's no way to sustain that going forward. So is there some good talking points or how do you initiate a conversation like that to a family to start something

Jolene Brown (09:13):Well's ideal? If I can start with the people who have the power, that's usually the onerous of the assets

(09:18):And I ask them three questions, you have to answer these questions or I won't work with you. The first one is, do you really want the business to continue and I just want a yes or a no, not, oh, we don't know how to do it or what's this going to cost? Or we got one kid on the farm and four not on the farm. I just want, is there the fire in your belly? You want this to continue? If you say yes, I'm going to hold your feet to the fire for the rest of the things we have to do. The second question I want you to answer is when are you going to transition it? Not just the labor or management, I'll transition anything that has to do with technology you take, but when are you going to transition leadership and ownership? Because when you transition a business, you're transitioning three things. First is the education. This is what we do here, but you've had more education. Should we be doing something else? The second thing is the experience. This is how we do it, but you've got more experience. Should we be doing something else? And then the last thing is the hard assets, but everybody wants to run to the attorney and do the last one

Speaker 4 (10:16):And

Jolene Brown (10:16):They've not done the first two. So then if you answered when are you going to transition, then I want to know to whom are you going to transition? And this is where you better have good advisors. I really want my agriculture businesses if at all possible to have the operations of a business separate from the land because I want 100% of ownership of operations to be owned by those who know how to operate the business. And land can be tied as legally. In other words, the operations pays you rent because you're owners of the assets. And this is sometimes we have off-farm owners of assets, but I've got to have people who know how to do the business have control of doing that business. So once we have those in place, then I have to remind the senior generation that you've just chosen to replace yourself. And yet I have found the only way I get a senior generation to relinquish power and control. First they have to take control of their finances. They have to be independently secure financially first. If not, you're dinking with my security, so I'm not going to turn it over.

(11:21):This is why they must have certified financial planners, work with them to find out what they own, what they owe. Do they have social security? By the way, we kept our income low so that we didn't have to pay the government to Darn thing.

Matt Adams (11:31):Exactly. Yep.

Jolene Brown (11:32):Do they have IRAs? Have they funded any place else? What's their cost of living? All of that. The helpful person to do that is a certified financial planner. I've got to get them financially secured first and I have to ask them if they've taken care of their long-term healthcare needs. Because if you have not taken out insurance and yeah, I hate paying insurance too, but if you've not done this, then you've chosen to self-insure and these advisors will tell you, well then you have to keep enough assets in your own name that cannot be collateralized by the business

(12:02):And that's how you're going to pay for what it is you've chosen to do. So we have to get them financially secure. The second thing I have to have in place is they still have to feel worthwhile and needed. The problem with inheritance, Matt, is when we inherit something, we see where it's at Today we have no idea of the journey that it took to get there. And as I talked to these young farmers last night, especially after the event, we were still in conversation till 10 15 last night. I said, one of the best things that you can do is honor the history. Ask them how it got started, what were the tough times for them? Were the times he could celebrate? Did they do anything for fun? What's something important that you learned that you wish I knew about honor that history, honor that legacy. And then you mentioned, so now we've got all this money wrapped up in land, which is its own operations. But please understand that land is only money if it's rented or sold until then. It's a resource to do the business. So if you told me you want the business to continue, then cash on demand is not acceptable. If you are a structure partnerships, LLCs, fps, C or S corps, you have a way to incrementally transition to the next generation. And it doesn't have to survey off two acres. You buy that

(13:16):You're buying into it and I don't want everything gifted, but they better be being paid enough so they can afford to buy some things in and then be very careful if you leave your assets in undivided interest. All my kids get it equally. I had a farmer say to me a couple of weeks ago, well, they're all going to get it, but they never could get along. Growing up I said, oh good, let's put 'em in business together. What do you think this should work good. Right? So if you give or donate or have them buy at a reduced value because you want the business to continue and you're closed the entity, so it's not going to go on the auction block and the two neighbors aren't going to bid against them, that means the value can be depreciated. It doesn't have to be highest cost value.

(14:00):Your attorneys and accountants will help you do this. And then I suggest that in this transition you have what I call a clawback so that if you've given them perhaps a 40% discount or whatever the law would allow you to do so the farm can continue. If anytime during the next seven years they turn around and sell that for a windfall like a housing development or a solar farm or something, that type of profit gets shared amongst all the siblings. That way you've got people on the land. I don't want you managing from the grave, but I do want you, if you told me you want this to continue, you have to have terms of which it can continue with the right people continuing

Matt Adams (14:38):It. Yep. So Jolene, let me ask you, we look at this transition planning process, what is your best advice you can give, I want to say the young generation that wants to initiate that to the older generation to start the transition process. If they have not talked about it, have anything in place, what is your advice? What's that first initial step that they should be doing to start the project?

Jolene Brown (15:08):Get their house in order first. If they do not have wills, by the way the state has one for you. If you don't, you're not going to

Speaker 4 (15:15):Like it. Right?

Jolene Brown (15:16):If you don't have guardians for your little ones, if you have not taken out life insurance, so sometime to cover the lifestyle and living you are developing for your own family unit, you have no right to ask them about theirs.

(15:30):That's a very good point. One of the best things you can do is say of mom and dad, I finally got a good night's sleep because we got to an attorney and it only cost us this much because we don't have much in our state. But we do have things decided. So for financial power of attorney, healthcare, power of attorney, the basic things that we need. But mom and dad, I got to tell you something, I'm not sleeping at night again because I have no idea what you have planned. What you do is your own choices. But you see it perfects the continuation of the business that you invited me to be a part of. It should be helpful to know what you have planned, but if you choose not to say anything, that's okay. I'll just assume nothing. And then please don't ever name me as the power of the executor of your wills because I'm going to be busy trying to create a life separate from this while I work for you.

Matt Adams (16:14):Right.

Jolene Brown (16:15):But first of all, get your house in order.

Matt Adams (16:17):Get your house in order. I like that. That's

Jolene Brown (16:19):That's an opening door. Then to ask about the house you're working with.

Matt Adams (16:22):Yes. Yes. So Jolene, I want to touch base on another. We've talked about the farm transition planning and how to work through that. One thing that really stuck out in your great presentation last night was agriculture. Our community, our industry, we're not as many side of the road conversations on a pickup hood as there used to be. We're not touching base with our neighbors. We used to be. You brought up some good stories. Can you just give me your thoughts on that? About how we build back that community and just the comradery we have in agriculture with our neighbors?

Jolene Brown (17:04):First of all, do you know your neighbors?

Matt Adams (17:06):I do. I have been very blessed that we are a very tight community. I am our farm where we sit right along, it's called the little a Glaze River. And then we have two neighboring farmers just a quarter mile away. That one's a young family that's just put up a hog, nursery, barn, first generation farmers. They have kids that are close to our age as my kids. So they run back and forth the stone. It reminds me kind of I grew up, but that's the thing. I know my neighbors, but there is so many people I talk to that I say, who's that farm over there? If I go to a farm visit, well their names is, I don't really really know. How do you not know your neighbors?

Jolene Brown (17:53):Well, if you don't know your neighbor, whose fault is that? Now sometimes the doors are closed.

Matt Adams (17:59):Right?

Jolene Brown (17:59):And I know we have some different groups that have moved into our neighborhood and I'm the first one to take food to them to make a little list of resources for them that they might need now that they live in this neighborhood,

Matt Adams (18:11):Welcome to our community.

Jolene Brown (18:13):But it's not just one time. I have to stop several times and how can I help you? What would you like to do? What are your interests? Where'd you come from find about their story? If they're closing the door and they want nothing to do with you, then don't beat your head against a brick wall. But there's other people you can do. And one of the greatest things about I credit in this Emerge meeting is that neighbors don't have to live close to you.

(18:36):Neighbors can live in your heart, they can live in your mind. You can start mastermind groups, peer groups. I'm finding with a lot of young farmers, they're not going into business with their parents. They're going into business with their peers. And ag credit is really good at helping them in that journey along the way, helping get the business plan. It makes financial sense, mitigate your risk. And they're so excited to do this. So again, I live six miles from town, three and a half of which is a gravel road. Before I hit the blacktop, my neighbors, anybody from my house all the way to town, and it was me that needed to stop in or when I first moved there, they included me and stopped in. But how do you reach out? It's not up to somebody else. But when you and I grew up, if anybody needed help, who did you ask? Your neighbors.

Matt Adams (19:19):Your neighbors.

Jolene Brown (19:19):If they needed help, they asked you. And never once was money exchanged. We did feed them well. We were good cooks. We did feed them well, but it was never IOU. And what we need to have is that giving spirit with our words, with our caring, with interest to them.

Matt Adams (19:36):And

Jolene Brown (19:36):Just an example to demonstrate that I work a lot with intergenerational families and I was doing a presentation generations at work or generations at war. And I had a panel then with, I had a mother-in-law and a daughter-in-law. I had some different generations. And I said to them, so what is your best piece of advice to keep peace in this family, to keep her?

(19:57):And one of the mother-in-laws said with her daughter-in-law sitting there once a month, I take my two daughters-in-law out for lunch. I pay for childcare, they get to pick the place. We know we're going to be gone about two and a half hours. And during that time I ask about their family, what they've been doing. They gave all of that up to become part of ours and live here. I wish you could have seen the audience. I want you for my mother-in-law. And then another daughter-in-law said, yes, my mother-in-law takes lunch out to the field and once they come home they have a pot roast and mashed potatoes. She said, we had popcorn for supper last night. And I said, and everybody was happy. I didn't care which house she lived in. There's different ways of doing things. And to watch our judgmentalness of how we think it has to be our way or no way. The same thing with neighbors. I have a new neighbor that moved in and she called me last spring and said, can they do that? Her neighbor was spreading, it was knifing in hog manure. And I said, the wind will change tomorrow. You can be fine. They will do that. And you love things organic. This is organic as it gets lady. But then to be the one who always takes homemade bread up for their kids and to celebrate them or to take care of the kids so she can have a little bit of time on her own. See neighboring doesn't mean they reach out to you. It means you reach out to them.

Matt Adams (21:16):Yes, yes. That is a good, and we talk about, I think a lot of this goes back to you talked about going through the eighties and the farm crisis with the mental stress. When we look at today's agriculture with some lower commodity prices, high input costs, high ground costs, we're seeing some stress factors come back into the operations. So touching base with your neighbors, just a nice stop by, Hey, how you doing? I think that goes so far with people just to know that somebody's out there

Jolene Brown (21:48):To

Matt Adams (21:48):Reach out if they need something to talk to.

Jolene Brown (21:50):And this is where the people that we purchase things from, our vendors, our suppliers, equipment dealers, seed dealers, veterinarians, would you get in the pickup and just drive out and check in? Not to sell us anything, but just to stop in.

Speaker 4 (22:02):Yes.

Jolene Brown (22:03):And that it's that comradery feeling of I'm part of a larger community. And you talked about the closeness of your community.

Speaker 4 (22:10):Yep.

Jolene Brown (22:10):Closeness really doesn't have anything to do with miles. It has everything to do with the relationship.

Matt Adams (22:15):Yes, yes. Well, Jolene, this has been great. I think we could go on and on and on. One thing, I know you are an author, you have some books out. Can you just tell us what you have out, what your books are about?

Jolene Brown (22:35):The first one is tips from over 400 kitchen tables on family business. It's called Sometimes you need more than a two by four. And that's because when I consult, my tools are a mirror, a box of tissues, a roll of duct tape and a two by four. And I have to use 'em all.

Matt Adams (22:49):I was going to say, I bet you use them all in a lot of situations.

Jolene Brown (22:53):Here's example of a two by four, and it's not a nice example, but it's a real one where mom and dad in the fifties had transitioned by contract the business to the next generation because she runs a travel agency, he serves on all these agricultural boards.

(23:05):So they sold by contract and the kids aren't paying them and they're on the phone to me really upset. And I said, was this a legal contract? They said yes. I said, well then you have to take them to court. Oh, but there are kids. Well then it was a gift. Oh no, we need the money. I said, I have no other option. And when I asked the next generation, why aren't you paying the terms of this contract, you signed it, that's your name. And they looked at me and said, well, we're going to get it all anyway. Why should we have to pay for it? That's a two by four.

Speaker 4 (23:33):Yes.

Jolene Brown (23:34):That's entitlement. And I said to mom and dad, you have just met entitlement. If I were in your shoes, I'd change my will tomorrow. I'd write them out. Now they can earn their way back in,

Speaker 4 (23:45):Right? Yes.

Jolene Brown (23:46):But if this is their philosophy and they're not honoring a legal contract that you need the money to live on, then we've got a problem here. They're not the right people to continue your business.

(23:59):So I have the book, sometimes it takes more than a two by four. It's a good bathroom book. Take out all the other reading material and you can put that book in there. I even marked a page one time, I put it in our shop bathroom. Pardon my English. But my father-in-law came out and said, what the hell is this all about? I said, dad, I'm so glad you brought that up. We've been wondering about this. It started the conversation. My other book is, holy crap, I married a farmer. And that's because sometimes Cupid gets whether or not it you're going to be on the farm.

Matt Adams (24:29):That's right.

Jolene Brown (24:30):But there's so many lessons and so many blessings. And that is from my Sisters in Agriculture. It is filled with humor and some important lessons. So last early spring, I had a call from people in the Northeast. I had done a fruit and vegetable grower meeting out there.

(24:44):So a lady from Connecticut says, my son is going to marry somebody from the city, New York City, and she's never been on the farm and we're fruit and vegetable growers here. And she said, we'd like to have a bridal shower for her called Holy crap, she's marrying a farmer. They zoomed me in. And what was fun, I said, okay, it was Audrey. So Audrey, get out your notepad. We're going to tell you some important lessons. Here's the first one. Don't learn how to do something you don't want to do for the rest of your life. And if you have to do it, do it bad enough so they'll never ask you to do it again Next. And we went around the room for two and a half hours. I mean some people had to go to the bathroom before we started. It was, but what fun it is.

(25:22):So we didn't have the joys, but not just the facilities and the funds in the book, the lessons, I had put together a panel of people who had recently lost a spouse. And I said to them, if you'll serve, I just have three questions for you. If you had one more day, what would you do? What would you say and what would you ask? And that day we laughed and we cried and we laughed so hard, we cried. And one of the ladies said, terrible grieving time when her husband died, but the farm bills kept coming in. So she said, I got out the farm checkbook and I wrote out the check. It was for hydraulic hoses and air filters only to find out it had been a bogus bill. Somebody had her bank routing number, her farm account number, her signature 3:59 PM on the Labor Day weekend of that Friday. So they're going to be closed Saturday, Sunday, Monday. Cleaned out the farm bank account.

Matt Adams (26:09):Oh my.

Jolene Brown (26:10):She said, please tell people out there, nothing has to be done right away. And when you're going to call to check on a bill, don't use the number that's on the invoice. You look it up on search engine or on past bills that you have to make sure it's legitimate. So the book is full of tips and lessons from going after parts to in-laws to dealing with livestock to being. It's just such a wonderful celebration where we pause to applaud all that we have done.

Matt Adams (26:36):That is awesome. Well, Jolene, give me your parting thought here. What is your advice that we want to leave our listeners with on this?

Jolene Brown (26:48):When it comes to family business, silence is the greatest destroyer. The second thing that destroys us is we think a conversation is a contract. And you have to understand if things are not in writing, they don't exist. And the big thing is if you truly love and honor your family, you've got to do the business. Right. If not, you can lose both family and business and you deserve a whole lot more than that. So I wish them well as they have not hard conversations, but honest conversations. And if nobody else does that, you do it. You act like it. And don't do the same thing to your kids that your parents are doing to you unless we have learned that they truly want the business to continue and that things are done correctly.

Matt Adams (27:28):Very good. Well, Jolene, thank you very much for being part of our podcast today. And once again, we're here with Jolene Brown a just a very dynamic individual. Great advice. We're going to have all her contact information posted with this podcast. Be sure to look that up. Look into her books if you get a chance to hear her speak is truly you will go away laughing. And it was one of the best presentations I've sat through for a long time and I thank you for that, Jolene, thank you. And catch us again next time on Ag Credit. Set it. Be sure to look us up in all the social media platforms like subscribe, share with a friend. We want you to tell everybody to keep listening to AgCredit Said it and we'll catch you next time. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (28:28):Thank you for listening to AgCredit Said It. Be sure to subscribe in your favorite podcast app or join us through our website at AgCredit.net so you never miss an episode.